The Cabo Colorado Connection Lew Gallo Talks About Inclusivity Todos Santos and Pescadero

"John (00:05)
Hey everybody, I am John Wilkinson. Welcome to Getting Real Estate. We are the Living Colorado team and I'm joined here with Kenda.

Kenda Ruck (00:13)
thanks so much for joining us. John and I are both relatively new to the Colorado area, and we realize that we need to understand what's going on in the area around us, and we need to understand all of these different communities. So we were talking one day and we decided, hey, let's do a podcast so anybody who's moving to the area can follow along with us. And even if you've lived here forever, you're still going to discover new things by following the podcast. So if you know anybody who's thinking of

Moving to Colorado. Please let them know about our podcast, like and follow it, and we'll take you along with us as we explore the area.

John (00:49)
Exactly. And today we're talking the Cabo, Colorado Connection, as we did last month. Very excited about that. it is also June is Pride Month across the country. And we thought it would be fun to see what's going on in Cabo from a real estate perspective and also just general kind of Pride Month activities that are going on in Cabo. And we have a special guest here today, don't we, Kenda

Kenda Ruck (01:13)
Yes, and I'm so excited. This is one of my dear friends. You can smile, Lew You know you're my my my BFF. This is one of my best friends from Cabo. Lew and I met each other many years ago and we worked together for years and we just developed a great friendship and I just love him dearly. He's an incredible person. He also happens to be one of the founding partners of Finn Real Estate Group and he is very plugged into the real estate market in Cabo.

John (01:17)
Yeah.

Kenda Ruck (01:43)
So I'm excited, Lew, to talk to you today about Cabo, but I think we should first talk about like how did you make the move to Cabo? That's always so fascinating to people. Like you're a regular guy. How did you end up in Cabo?

Lew (01:59)
you know, it's actually funny because I was with my work, I was traveling through Europe a lot, and I kind of became enamored with Luca Italy, and I liked its location. It was close to cities, close to the beach. So I was looking there to to purchase, and I actually had a friend send me a text, said, Hey, I know you're looking at Italy, but we're in San Jose del Cabo, we're buying, I wish you would look here. So I actually the following weekend flew to Cabo for four days.

And fell in love with it. My family used to vacation in Cabo San Lucas, and I wasn't really familiar with San Jose del Cabo and loved it. I had a really good job. I was in Dallas. Kind of thought that I would either buy land and build or buy a house and fix it up and maybe stay in Dallas for four or five years because it was a good job and then I could retire. I got back and made it two weeks, gave notice. Three months later, I moved here. I actually drove.

From Arizona to Cabo. I drove with a friend, but I did move here by myself and I found it very easy to acclimate. I found made friends very easily. And once all of the things I was taught as American that was bad about Mexico, once I was able to release that and realize that it's myth and it's not true, at least for Cabo, it became very comfortable and very safe for me here.

John (03:22)
I think that's so great. And speaking, you know, of friends, you know, I met Lew, I met you in Cabo, gosh, probably about four or five years ago. and you really helped us, Billy and I, just meet people and you really get acclimated into into the town.

I found it to be to be a really great transition for us when we were visiting to have somebody to talk to. And you as a as a gay couple, you know, that that was a concern, you know, for us and just like meeting folks and and how do you do that in in Mexico? How do you f how did you find the the community, I guess, between the states and Mexico and just getting acclimated and and meeting folks down there?

Lew (04:03)
You know, it's funny because I've lived in San Francisco most of my life. I've lived in Phoenix. I've lived in Raleigh for four years, and I lived in Dallas. And of all of those cities, which all of them are pretty progressive, I actually feel the safest and most comfortable as a gay man in in Cabo.

You know, I will hold hands with my partner and walk down the street without feeling people are staring at me or fear that someone's gonna say something. And I wasn't always, didn't always feel that way in some of those cities in the United States.

Kenda Ruck (04:33)
So you're partnered with a lot of really great organizations there and there's a lot of social scene. I know we've been to like a drag brunch that I've done that several times that you were involved in and that's a lot of fun. So I think there are a lot of fun things you can do. Did you date anybody in Cabo?

Lew (04:51)
actually I did date people. It's really funny is that I dated people here and of course the person I met lives on the opposite side of the country and in a in a different country. But yeah, it's super social. It's really easy. You know, the thing is when I first got here, I actually met someone who an American who was a bit younger than me and he was like, my god, I'm so glad another gay, now there's two gay people here.

And I I kept meeting people, and this was eight years ago, I kept meeting gay people, and they'd be like, another gay person, there's no gay people here. And I'm like, there are, there's just not the same outlets that us as gay men are used to. we don't have a street with rainbow flags and you know gay pride stickers everywhere. We don't have that type of community. But first of all, it's all inclusive. I find if I go to a restaurant when and I'm with another man, the waiter or waitress will even ask us, like, are you

Celebrating a birthday, is it your anniversary? they're very open, they're very accepting, so I feel that it's it's very easy to be myself. Like I said, I feel safe being here. I started a group called Dandy, and the whole concept behind that was it was interesting because Mexican culture doesn't know what a dandy is, so to this day, and that I did that like six years ago. young Mexicans will sometimes they come up to me and go, Hi Dandy, how are you? They think my name's Dandy.

Kenda Ruck (06:15)
I think that's a

great name for you. I'm gonna call you that from now on.

Lew (06:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John (06:17)
Yeah.

Lew (06:18)
And the whole process or thought process for that was I did call it dandy, and the marketing was more like old pictures of men in top hats. And I tried to bring a little elevation to it and a little sophistication, only because I know young gay people are hungry. If there's anything they can go to, they're gonna go to it. And I felt like if I had go-go boys with their shirts off and all that, that maybe the more mature gay men wouldn't go. So that's why I marketed that.

We were getting like 30 to 40 people and we were doing it, we started doing it one night a month and then we moved it to two nights a month. And we were having a pretty good turnout. COVID happened, so everything got shut down. And then as we started

Being able to not be under quarantine, just the real estate market here just boomed and took off. And I became so consumed with that that I did drop the ball on the doing the the weekly events. But we do have a new gay bar in town. So we actually have two gay bars now in San Jose, and it's actually great.

La Legua is the new one and it's beautiful. It's beautifully designed. The drinks are fancy, it's a little higher price points, and it's in the back of the Flamboyan hotel. The other one has been here for about two years, and it's called Loco Racer, and it is the epitome of Dive Bar. I mean, I went with there were three couples that went and we were all a little older, and we showed up early. We were the only people in there. They were very excited we were there. They had folding tables.

John (07:32)
Nice.

Lew (07:48)
from Home Depot with folding chairs around it. And as we sat down, the waiter came and offered each one of us a cigarette if we'd like a free cigarette. But it was cute. There was a drag show with a drag queen that was so bad she was good. And it was it was fun. You know, it was fun. And we learned that we were there about four hours too early.

Kenda Ruck (07:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, like it.

John (08:08)
Four

hours. Wow.

Kenda Ruck (08:09)
Everybody loves

a ratchet drag queen. I mean yeah, it's the best.

Lew (08:11)
Exactly. Yeah.

John (08:13)
That is the best. You know, I think speaking, you know, socially, I I'll also say one of the things I really left impressed with from you is just your knowledge of you know the real estate market and also the friends and and investors, flippers, house hackers, et cetera.

in Cabo that you work with. How did you build your network, your business network in Cabo and and how do you see like the future in the next you know four to five years? You know, I know there's a lot of movement to the East Cape, but what's happening in San Jose and and how did you kind of build your network there?

Lew (08:53)
You know, I'm learning that I'm extremely extrovert. I didn't I've never categorized myself as that, but I like people, I like going out, I'm really social. I got my first few buyers actually sitting at the bar at La Lupita's, and I wasn't drinking, but I would have dinner there because I didn't know anyone. So

It was I liked the tacos, it was cheap, good food. So I'd sit there and couples would sit next to me and I, I just moved to Cabo and we'd start a conversation, and that was how I started. I feel the big turning point for me here was during COVID, I met friends who were staying at Flora Farms and they were quarantining. So they were there for like two or three months, and we all became friends. And you know, for those of you I don't know about Flora Farms is fractional, so you're purchasing in two-week increments.

And you know, a lot of people purchased a few years ago and they purchased two weeks, two weeks, two weeks, and now they owned enough, and the price of that has gone up. They were able to sell that for a good amount of money and actually use it to purchase a house. Obviously, it wouldn't pay full price, but it definitely made obtaining a house much easier. And I kind of got in with that circle and it's been very kind to me. I, you know, I sell to a couple and then they refer a friend to me, and I've been very, very successful with referrals and also resale. I mean, I've had

Three homes that I sold within the last four years that I've resold for the owners.

John (10:14)
Wow, that's great.

Kenda Ruck (10:16)
John and I have talked about so many times. There's this really strong connection between Colorado where we're currently living and Cabo. So a lot of people go back and forth. So if there are Colorado buyers or investors who are watching this video right now, where would you tell them?

That is a good place for them to be looking to invest their money. Where, what area specifically do you think is kind of the next up-and-coming hotspot in the Los Cabos area?

Lew (10:48)
You know, I'd say there's two. One is La Laguna is where I'm at. I feel like it's it hasn't peaked, but it's still growing, it's a still opportunity opportunity and it's a hot spot. But I really feel the Pacific side right now. Pescadero, Todos Santos, it's really booming. they are talking about separating from La Paz, so will no longer be in the municipality of La Paz, which will be huge for them because La Paz is this huge city.

It receives a lot of money from Pescadero and Todos Santos and doesn't necessarily put it back in. So it will mean a lot more money for infrastructure for Todos Santos and Pescadero. And they've already done a really good job of controlling the growth there. They're really controlling the infill. They're doing low density. They're allowing like one and two-story buildings.

John (11:20)
Mm.

Lew (11:44)
They're not allowing big high-rise condos and houses. So it's going to keep it the feel that it already has, that it'll have very open, a lot of farmland, and it's a really good time to buy because we've had a slow season, which everyone knows across the world we've had a slow season. So this is a really good time to buy. Sellers are more willing to negotiate now than they were like a year ago.

Kenda Ruck (12:09)
You think it's a buyer's market there. Yeah.

Lew (12:11)
It's definitely a buyer's market. I

mean, we've seen inventory going up. you know, what happened was last year I felt we had a lot of Americans coming down because the market had already started to soften in the US. So buyers were coming thinking, I'm gonna get a deal. Sellers here last year were thinking, because we had seen prices going up, you know, and up sometimes up to 30 or 40 percent in one year. So, you know, over a four peri-year period, we saw prices go anywhere from

From 40 to 60 percent, and in some cases, the higher end market's 80 percent. So sellers were thinking.

if my next door neighbor got 1.5 million last year, I should get 1.6. And the truth was, no, we should list for 1.5 and you might get 1.4. So we had sellers that were unwilling to negotiate and buyers that were coming in with unrealistic expectations. This year it's changed a little bit. I think sellers are more willing to negotiate, and I think buyers are understanding the market a little bit better. So it is a good time.

John (13:11)
Interesting. So, you know, and from a from a buyer's perspective, one of the things well there's there's two questions that are unrelated, so I'll start with one.

Kenda and I spoke about in a previous episode about infrastructure. And you mentioned, you know, Pescadero and Todos Santos, you know, that they're limiting kind of like the the infill and high density projects, whereas Cabo San Lucas obviously has a lot of density, a lot of condo developments, but they're having some water issues. have you seen that kind of trickle up to Todos Santos and Pescadero from a water perspective? Or what what is what does that look like?

Lew (13:46)
You know, it's interesting, and again, that's a whole nother segment, but you know, there's the Tropic of Cancer that runs across Baja Sur

And that changes the weather pattern. So if you're even flying over, it's like brown, brown, brown, and then this little green stripe, and that's basically like Miraflores, more towards the the east coast side, and it comes all the way over to the west coast side and it comes right through Pescadero and Todos Santos. And it's really interesting. You're even driving and it's like cactuses and very dry, and then all of sudden you see palm trees, and then you come in, and I I feel like when I drive into Pescadero, it feels like the Imperial Valley in California a little bit. It's like it's you know.

John (14:24)
Mm.

Lew (14:25)
lush green, lots of basil being grown, peppers, a huge percentage of cherry tomatoes, peppers, and basil is what you're buying and it's coming from Pescadero.

John (14:38)
Wow, I didn't realize that. The the other question too is is and and that's and that's great for people 'cause I know even you know, for Billy and I thinking about, you know, where do we wanna purchase in

It's definitely gonna be somewhere on the peninsula. but whether East Cape or todos Santos or Pescadero. but but thinking about like a buyer, obviously Kenda and I know, you obviously know how what it takes to buy in Mexico. Do you find that buyers are aware of what they need to do? Do they think they can get a mortgage? or is it kind of hit and miss?

Lew (15:12)
You know, it's primarily a cash market, and that's good and bad. It makes it harder for people to buy, but it also protects the market because we don't have that people where they're upside down on their mortgage, they owe more than the house is worth, they do the fire sell and it just causes prices to plummet. That's not gonna happen here because it's a cash market. In worst case scenario, you rent the house out, it's still a very, very lucrative rental market. So there is security with of that, and that's something I've been telling buyers. Like if you're waiting

To get that bargain basement deal, it's not gonna happen. I mean, the only time that may happen is and we don't even see it as much. maybe someone who bought a house 20 years ago, they've passed away, their children just don't want to deal with it, and they they're they're not exposed and they don't realize how much prices have increased. But that's even gone away. That happened like three or four years ago, but everyone is is privy to the fact that this is a booming market.

When I started, even in Laguna Hills where I'm living, you could buy a lot for like seventy-five thousand dollars and homes were like six to eight hundred. Lots now without a great view are two fifty. Good views are six, seven, eight hundred thousand dollars. homes are now basically we have one house that's under a million, but it's a very small house, it needs a lot of work. It doesn't have a view. Most of the houses are close to two million on up to the mid three.

John (16:23)
Wow.

Lew (16:37)
three

millions. A couple years, yeah. And that's why Pescadero and Todos Santos are great. Prices have definitely gone up, but you can still buy land and you can still get homes for a reasonable price.

Kenda Ruck (16:38)
And that's just been in a a couple of years that that's yeah, that's crazy.

You're really familiar

with that area. That's a that's a an area where you have really spent a lot of time. Can you talk to us about are there good places to eat? Are there hotels? Like how's it how's the day-to-day, what's it look like to actually like maybe live there?

Lew (17:10)
Yeah, it's great like Pescadero, it's farmland. So it's dirt roads, unpaved roads.

It's unusual because you can see farmland going right up almost to the ocean, which you don't see very often. And you'll be driving down the road, and it's farmland, farmland, and then like Urba Buena, which is a farm to table restaurant. It's quaint, it's sweet. It's been there for probably 15 years now. And it was probably the first nicer restaurant. But we have Mas Olas, which is a Kimpton hotel, and they have three amazing restaurants. San Cristobal, which is a beautiful boutique hotel.

Got a great restaurant. Some of my favorite taco stands are in the strip between Pescadero and Todos Santos. Agricoli, which is so superior to any Whole Foods type market you have in the United States. It's absolutely stunning, priced well. They have a restaurant, which is actually my favorite restaurant in all of Los Cabos, called Capo de Cocina.

And they also do takeout food there, which is great. So yes, you have a little bit of everything. If you want fine dining, there is fine dining. If you want just that little taco stand on the side the road, we have that as well.

Kenda Ruck (18:23)
So how far is Todos Santos from like Cabo and how far is Todos Santos from the airport?

Lew (18:23)
yeah.

Okay,

so what's interesting is from Cabo San Lucas, it's about forty-five minutes. From San Jose, depending on what part of San Jose, it's an hour to an hour and thirty minutes. It's an hour from the airport, but what's interesting, it's also an hour from La Paz Airport, and La Paz is starting to get more flights. So you actually have two flights.

And the thing that I really love about Pescadero is that it is farmland. So, you know, you don't have the big grocery stores like you have in San Jose and Cabo San Lucas. But there's a fruit stand, it's like a big palapa with fresh produce, and it's really wonderful. And then down the street you have the fishmonger, and then you have the butcher, and it's kind of old school, but you're getting the best quality. And what's really interesting is I

Have friends and they'll actually like get in these debates of like, no, this this fishmonger is better than this fishmonger. no, no, I only buy my meat here, or I get my pork from this guy, but this guy has better beef. most of your even your your meats are are local. So you it it's it's it's you see you see your produce, you know, live and on the shelves. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John (19:33)
Wow.

Kenda Ruck (19:40)
Ew.

John (19:41)
Yeah, that's that's truly whole foods. I mean, really like a a a

Kenda Ruck (19:44)
Okay.

John (19:44)
non

non-geo or whatever they call now, you know, like foods that are, infiltrated in the especially in the States for sure. So you've been working, I know you've been working on a development in Pescadero. Would love for you to talk about Gallo 64 and kind of your vision, what made you kind of decide to do it? and and tell us a little bit more about it.

Lew (20:04)
it really came to fruition when like five years ago, my mother got sick and she was living in Arizona and it took all four of her kids to basically kind of

pull together to make sure she got the care and the best quality of life the last few months she was alive. And then I started thinking like, I didn't do the kids. I didn't do that process. What happens to me when I get older? And I thought I'd love to have some kind of community where my friends live and then as we got older we could help each other out. And that's kind of was the basis for Gallo64 It's evolved a lot in that amount of time. So r basically there's eleven homes and it was

A lot of farmland, actually more farmland than actual residential. And the concept of it is you can purchase there, use it as vacation, then when you're ready to retire, you have this community of friends that you've been friends with for five years, ten years, fifteen years. And my thought is: as we get older, if I have a bond with somebody for 10 years and they need my help.

It's just a given, you want to help that person. and the whole idea is just to have the sense of community, sense of freedom. You can actually walk outside your house, pick your own fresh produce, your own citrus. there was so much farmland that

There was more produce than the homeowners could consume. And so what we we're doing now is we're actually reducing that and we're increasing wellness. So we're gonna do, you know, cold plunges, saunas, a meditation pagoda, increase the size of the gym. So we're kind of trying to do more. We're also actually gonna add a pickleball court as well. Yeah, I know. I know.

John (21:39)
Nice. Well I know you love pickleball and you're pretty good at it, so that

that's good. And Eric as well. So I think you know that that's really interesting. I I've seen here in Colorado that people when they're looking for properties that have land, they're doing so to

To see if they could have generational living. I mean, that is that is not just in Colorado. I know that's that's kind of a trend nationally. I don't know if it's because of the pandemic or or whatever it is. people don't want to go to like a quote unquote nursing home or or active living community. They want to be in an area that has their friends, family, you know, whatever. I think that's a really smart idea because there are a lot of LGBTQ, you know,

in the community that may not have that family legacy that you were talking about, right? And having community is important. Feeling bel like that you belong, that you're part of something, is I think important for health, for long term, your mental health. so I think that's it's it's a it's a brilliant, brilliant idea.

Lew (22:41)
And you know the the th it's funny, like I remember when I was younger, they were like, 40's a new thirty, and then all of a sudden fifty's a new forty, you know, and now sixty's a new fifty, you know, and it it's but the truth is we are staying younger, we're more active. So at one point if you were 70 and you were retiring, you just like want to play shuffleboard and watch TV, you know. And now if you're 70, you still wanna go surfing or hiking or play pickleball. So these communities I think are starting to pop up.

John (22:47)
Yeah.

Kenda Ruck (22:49)
Okay.

Lew (23:10)
Two things. One is this is an all-inclusive community. It's not just for gay people. It's we've marketed heavily towards the gay community, but everybody's welcome. and something that I think is interesting, and we kind of almost going back to what we started talking about about gay pride.

Something that I found for me when I started looking at where do I want to retire before I moved here. I looked at places like Palm Springs and Puerto Vallerta which is very common for gay men living on the western part of the US United States. For me, I love Palm Springs to visit, but I found when it was time to go, I was glad to be leaving. It's just it's very hot and it's a great community, great architecture, I love all that, but it just always felt vacation-y to me.

John (23:55)
Mm.

Lew (23:55)
Puerto Vallerta is fun, but

The weather is really humid, hot for long periods of time. It's also getting very crowded. What I like about the whole Los Cabos and Baja California Sur area is there are a lot of gay people here. They're integrated really nicely. It's like I have equal gay friends and straight friends. we do dinner parties, we go to the beach, we go out to eat, we do things in a group. It's not so much like going to the club and dancing. And when we do go out, there's a place called Crania here, and it's out by the beach.

It's a big rusty crane with disco balls hanging. And what I really love about it is when they have they have famous DJs and bands come. we went to like Rufus del Sol last year was here, and I'll be dancing, and there'll be gay people, straight people, there'll be an 18 year old and a 60 year old, and everyone is dancing and having a good time, and there's no sense of separation. I hear from so many of my gay friends that live in places like New York and San Francisco and LA that they feel like when they go to

like too old and I don't feel that I just it's super social.

John (25:03)
Yeah.

Lew (25:06)
So I do like that it's not about gay or straight hair. It's just about really good people having a good time and bonding.

John (25:06)
Yeah.

I I mean Kenda I don't know what you think. I you know, I see so many similarities between how you know Cabo, and Colorado.

I feel the same here. It's one of the reasons why you know we decided to move, you know, from from Texas. Colorado is is a very kind of accepting and it's integrated. And that's what at the end of the day, I mean, you just want to be surrounded by like-minded individuals who aren't going to judge you for whatever. I know everyone has something, you know, in in their I don't want to say closet, but in their past or whatever that maybe they don't want to talk about. But at the end of the day, if you can just be a nice person, you know, Kenda and

I just joined Real Brokerage, you know, and their tagline is work hard, be kind. And that at the end of the day, I think is is kind of sums up, you know, what life should be about. And I think that what you're doing in Pescadero and building the kind of that community and your vision is aligned with that, which I think is is really amazing.

Lew (26:10)
Thank you, people move here for quality of life where

Most of our lives, you know, up until this point, we moved to a city for school or for a job or for a relationship, for like this sense of purpose. this is moving for quality of life. People have made a decision to live a better life.

It's much more social. Like I I even when I started w first got here, I would be invited to so many things that I would be tired and then I'd start lying, like, I can't, I've got this. And then finally I realized like I don't even have to lie. They're everyone is having such a good time. Just say, I'm staying in tonight, guys. I've been out to dinner four nights. I'm staying in there like, okay, great. So I do think that, and I think Denver might be the same. I haven't had the experience.

People are just more open. They're open to meet people. They're new. They don't have their family here. They just want to have a sense of community. So they're seeking it. So they're just more open to it. And it's nice.

Kenda Ruck (27:04)
Yeah, we've definitely

experienced that here as well. And and Lew,

Will you share information with us so that if any of our viewers are watching this and they're like, I would really like to learn more about that community? Maybe I want to invest in the infrastructure of that community, be one of the investors. I know you're always looking for investors and buyers, so will you share information with us and we can put it in the show notes below so that people can contact you if they are interested in your community.

Lew (27:35)
Sure, I would

love that. It's super easy too. It could just go to my website Gallo64.com and you click on the brochure, it tells you all the information. And if they do, just have them let me know that they're finding me through you guys, which would be awesome. I'd be happy to send them any more information and and to talk more about it as well.

John (27:55)
That's great. And I know that you are very familiar, as is Kenda, about, you know, the market in general. so if people have questions, you know, there's a lot more to talk about buying, you know, in in in Mexico. And those will be future episodes. so if you're interested in in buying in Mexico and Cabo specifically or Baja California, Sur make sure to let us know.

Lew (28:18)
It's a very safe investment. You know, for investing in Baja California Sur is different than investing in the rest of California. It's done in US dollar. And I have people who I had a guy like four years ago, he came and just bought eight million dollars worth of land in the East Cape as an investment for his grandchildren because he said it was a smarter investment than anything he could do in the United States at the current time. So it is a safe place to invest.

Kenda Ruck (28:45)
Yeah, yeah, that's good. I know there's lots of money going into that area as well. Well, that's a wrap for today. But Lew, we're so thankful that you joined us. We're excited about Pride Month. We have a whole series of speakers and guests lined up to share in this exciting month. So, John, who's our next guest?

John (28:43)
That's a significant investment. That's good to know.

Yeah, we're excited to welcome Justin Gregory next month. He is a local designer, really in touch with furniture, fabric trends. and I think it's gonna be interesting to see, you know, what's different between mountain buyers versus you know the city buyers, what they're looking for. Maybe there's not a difference, but Justin will be on next week to continue kind of the the Pride Month conversations.

Kenda Ruck (29:34)
Awesome. Thank you guys so much for watching. Please feel free to share this podcast if you know of anybody who is thinking of moving to Colorado or is new to Colorado and wants to go along with us as we discover all of the fun and exciting places So please like and subscribe, and we'll see you in the next one.

John (29:54)
Thanks everybody.

Lew (29:54)
Thanks, guys.
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